Rt vs. Assassin - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Cebe · Apr 12, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Rit > Sin every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

As far as I know no ritualist skill does armor-ignoring damage (please correct me if I'm wrong on this), it's all lightning.

[Grasping was Kuurong]

just to.. *cough* ..add that to the list.

Ritualists are very very flexible characters. That can play a huge variety of roles, both offensive and defensive. If I were starting out, I'd make a Rit first.

Moloch Vein · Apr 13, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasaek

[skill]spirit's strength[/skill][skill]Vengeful was Khanhei[/skill][skill]Brutal Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Nightmare weapon[/skill][skill]Vengeful weapon[/skill][skill]Lamentation[/skill][skill]Painful Bond[/skill]

And if we're counting spirits,
[skill]Agony[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Destruction[/skill][skill]Gaze of Fury[/skill][skill]Anguish[/skill][skill]Disenchantment[/skill][skill]Dissonance[/skill][skill]Pain[/skill][skill]Shadowsong[/skill][skill]Vampirism[/skill]

Alright, to first state this, I was clearing talking with my head up my ass that post.

Quote:

Just to top it off, let me throw this out there: A rit with spirit's strength and daggers can put out a lot more armor ignoring damage than a sin...

[skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill][skill]Sight beyond Sight[/skill][skill]Weapon of Aggression[/skill][skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] anyone? Whatcha gonna do about it?

However an assassin can run Moebius Strike to spam Death Blossom, attack a tad faster than you with Critical Agility (for PvE, and this reapplies saving you the casting time of the weapon spell), have far better defense and aren't as easily shut down by enchantment hate. Plus they have a built-in broken energy management primary when it comes to attacking.

Quote:

[skill]Attuned was Songkai[/skill][skill]Spirit Channeling[/skill][skill]Wielder's Zeal[/skill][skill]Renewing Memories[/skill][skill]Energetic was Lee Sa[/skill]

All spawning power; all skills necros don't have access to. Use these properly and you can heal till the cows come home, even in situations where nothing's dying yet, and necros will be crying for energy... Not to mention that you have runes and your rit heals will be healing for more than theirs to begin with.

Problem there is you sacrifice your elite slot for energy management, something the N never has to do. Also Spirit Channeling is pretty bad, OoS>SC.

Rasaek · Apr 16, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

The Rt/A build is meant for pvp, not pve. Note that it does have a cover enchant, and further, that it breaks through blocking stances with ease, and is immune to blind, the top two melee-killers... not to mention the absolutely sick spike damage. Stomping unsuspecting rangers into the ground within a few seconds (while they scramble for block stances and blind, only to discover they're ineffective) is priceless.

If we're talking death blossom and pve, though, splinter barrage along with ancestor's rage, spirit rift et al, easily holds it's own, though it's better off supporting melee imo. As far as the rit on it's own... the 330 hard mode solo build, if we're going to keep on in that direction, I suppose, is probably a good showcase of what VwK can do. So far the toughest I've done with my sin is solo normal mode altrumm ruins with [skill]death blossom[/skill] [skill]critical defense[/skill] etc, while my 330 [skill]vengeful was khanhei[/skill] rit can solo hard mode waijun bazaar, hm parts of elite missions. Then again, I haven't tried to do much soloing with my sin lately, I've grown a bit tired of him. I could probably attempt one of those A/E SF nukers, but that seems like it would feel the ele part is doing all the work there...

As for energy management, I find it's well worth it to run [skill]attuned was songkai[/skill] because instead of one elite heal, you can run an entire skill bar of high energy skills nonstop, regardless of the situation.

[skill]spirit transfer[/skill] (Yes, that's 265 healed for 5 energy on a rit primary) [skill]weapon of warding[/skill] [skill]recuperation[/skill] [skill]resilient weapon[/skill] [skill]weapon of shadow[/skill] [skill]recovery[/skill] [skill]rejuvenation[/skill]

Note that the skill points the rit invests in spawning to make these powerful weapon spells cheaper via the elite, AwS simultaneously make the weapon spells last longer as well as a passive benefit (and of course make the spirits more durable, allowing you to spam spirit transfer more often, too.)

If we're talking purely energy efficient heals, then [skill]wielder's boon[/skill], [skill]spirit light[/skill] and [skill]soothing memories[/skill] for strong heals. The rit can cast a sequence of these three with AwS for 436 hp healed, at a cost of a total of... 3 energy nearly every 4 seconds. You're actually regenerating more energy than you're spending, while healing for around 100+hp per second.

My alternative choices (To AwS, when I'm running all resto, that is) are typically either [skill]spirit light weapon[/skill] or [skill]preservation[/skill], they're good skills for a resto rit too.

Then again, I often run a rit healer build on elite missions that uses the humble [skill]mighty was vorizun[/skill] rather than AwS and have no problems either healing or with energy management. Rits have a lot of energy management options available; if you have to resort to playing necro/rit (and giving up effectiveness of heals via runes) I dare say you're doing something wrong. But simply being able to do it well by choice is a testament not only to the skill of the person playing the necro but also to the effectiveness of rit healing...

Moloch Vein · Apr 17, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Well... the A/E SF nuker farmers are pretty weak, to be honest. They can trash stuff in NM, and some in HM... but the armor-dependant ele stuff is just too weak. I've been thinking and thinking of ways to make better farm builds but... I guess I'm just too dumb, still.

Your points are all valid regarding Restoration ritualists being very much viable. However, in any sane party configuration a N/Rt isn't going to have any energy problem whatsoever in PvE. So, then we're back to discussing if the runes on the ritualist are worth the elite on the N, because that's what it boils down to. Maybe they are.

Regarding the Rt/A build it's a little disingenious (not meant as an offense) to claim a Rt is stronger in melee and point to a build that is so much of a gimmick. Yes, of course it can kill stuff. If you run it in RA and AB, I'm sure you will be fine. But stroll into a pvp area where foes know what they're doing and it's going to be "Rend Enchantments" and game over.

Also if we're discussing stances and blinds Assassin's Remedy is far better in that regard... and an Assassin can also bring stuff like Conjure etc.

I think the main reason I like assassins more than ritualists is the speed at which they play. Most roles ritualists fill are very slow-playing, and that drives me mad. To each his own, though.

Tyla · Apr 17, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

[ancestors' rage] and [splinter weapon] are reason enough to run a Rit.

Apr 16, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31	#23
Rasaek Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2008	The Rt/A build is meant for pvp, not pve. Note that it does have a cover enchant, and further, that it breaks through blocking stances with ease, and is immune to blind, the top two melee-killers... not to mention the absolutely sick spike damage. Stomping unsuspecting rangers into the ground within a few seconds (while they scramble for block stances and blind, only to discover they're ineffective) is priceless. If we're talking death blossom and pve, though, splinter barrage along with ancestor's rage, spirit rift et al, easily holds it's own, though it's better off supporting melee imo. As far as the rit on it's own... the 330 hard mode solo build, if we're going to keep on in that direction, I suppose, is probably a good showcase of what VwK can do. So far the toughest I've done with my sin is solo normal mode altrumm ruins with [skill]death blossom[/skill] [skill]critical defense[/skill] etc, while my 330 [skill]vengeful was khanhei[/skill] rit can solo hard mode waijun bazaar, hm parts of elite missions. Then again, I haven't tried to do much soloing with my sin lately, I've grown a bit tired of him. I could probably attempt one of those A/E SF nukers, but that seems like it would feel the ele part is doing all the work there... As for energy management, I find it's well worth it to run [skill]attuned was songkai[/skill] because instead of one elite heal, you can run an entire skill bar of high energy skills nonstop, regardless of the situation. [skill]spirit transfer[/skill] (Yes, that's 265 healed for 5 energy on a rit primary) [skill]weapon of warding[/skill] [skill]recuperation[/skill] [skill]resilient weapon[/skill] [skill]weapon of shadow[/skill] [skill]recovery[/skill] [skill]rejuvenation[/skill] Note that the skill points the rit invests in spawning to make these powerful weapon spells cheaper via the elite, AwS simultaneously make the weapon spells last longer as well as a passive benefit (and of course make the spirits more durable, allowing you to spam spirit transfer more often, too.) If we're talking purely energy efficient heals, then [skill]wielder's boon[/skill], [skill]spirit light[/skill] and [skill]soothing memories[/skill] for strong heals. The rit can cast a sequence of these three with AwS for 436 hp healed, at a cost of a total of... 3 energy nearly every 4 seconds. You're actually regenerating more energy than you're spending, while healing for around 100+hp per second. My alternative choices (To AwS, when I'm running all resto, that is) are typically either [skill]spirit light weapon[/skill] or [skill]preservation[/skill], they're good skills for a resto rit too. Then again, I often run a rit healer build on elite missions that uses the humble [skill]mighty was vorizun[/skill] rather than AwS and have no problems either healing or with energy management. Rits have a lot of energy management options available; if you have to resort to playing necro/rit (and giving up effectiveness of heals via runes) I dare say you're doing something wrong. But simply being able to do it well by choice is a testament not only to the skill of the person playing the necro but also to the effectiveness of rit healing... Last edited by Rasaek; Apr 16, 2008 at 10:53 PM // 22:53..

Apr 17, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32	#24
Moloch Vein Forge Runner Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reactive Hexing Sucks Guild: [Thay] Profession: N/	Well... the A/E SF nuker farmers are pretty weak, to be honest. They can trash stuff in NM, and some in HM... but the armor-dependant ele stuff is just too weak. I've been thinking and thinking of ways to make better farm builds but... I guess I'm just too dumb, still. Your points are all valid regarding Restoration ritualists being very much viable. However, in any sane party configuration a N/Rt isn't going to have any energy problem whatsoever in PvE. So, then we're back to discussing if the runes on the ritualist are worth the elite on the N, because that's what it boils down to. Maybe they are. Regarding the Rt/A build it's a little disingenious (not meant as an offense) to claim a Rt is stronger in melee and point to a build that is so much of a gimmick. Yes, of course it can kill stuff. If you run it in RA and AB, I'm sure you will be fine. But stroll into a pvp area where foes know what they're doing and it's going to be "Rend Enchantments" and game over. Also if we're discussing stances and blinds Assassin's Remedy is far better in that regard... and an Assassin can also bring stuff like Conjure etc. I think the main reason I like assassins more than ritualists is the speed at which they play. Most roles ritualists fill are very slow-playing, and that drives me mad. To each his own, though.

Apr 17, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34	#25
Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006	[ancestors' rage] and [splinter weapon] are reason enough to run a Rit.